Comments»

1. Gary Johnson - May 1, 2008

Too much horizontal meditation at that conference, or too much time on the golf course.

I think that was the shortest message I have ever heard you preach by the way. Good job. (that is, on the message, not on it being short)

2. Kent Brandenburg - May 2, 2008

Thanks. Well, the golf (1st time in about 13 yrs.) ate up one afternoon and then we had the crisis management thing. After that, I figured out what I could preach. And I emailed my wife. Sleep was definitely not it. I wrote one answer and question for the preservation debate on the plane on the way there. On the way back I worked on a power point presentation for a fundraiser for my kids orchestra. This can’t be too interesting, hearing what I’m doing. 18 messages in 2 1/2 days. Good seeing you there.

For those watching at home, Gary and I were both at a preacher’s conference in St. Louis at Mt. Zion Baptist Church where Thomas Smith is pastor. It is a conference of unaffiliated Baptist churches.

3. reglerjoe - May 2, 2008

Out of curiosity: is there a difference between “independent Baptist” and “unaffiliated Baptist”?

4. Gary Johnson - May 2, 2008

Just having some fun, I didn’t think you had any more time than I had to get other matters taken care of during the free time.

For reglerjoe -

Think back to math class -
“unaffiliated Baptist” being a subset within “independent Baptist”

Or answer this question, How many independent Baptists do you know who are connected to some outside organization in some manner? It may be a mission board, it may be a fellowship, it may be a college, but there are some ties that bind. Unaffiliated Baptists are not tied into, nor work with any such group. There is a lot more that could be said about this, but since this post is on tithing, and I derailed it badly with the first comment, I will leave it to those in charge of this to go farther with this matter.

5. Dave Mallinak - May 2, 2008

So, are the “unaffiliated” Baptists connected with each other (sort of like some are connected to a college)?

6. Kent Brandenburg - May 2, 2008

Hopefully we’re all saved. That connects us. There was an excellent message on Lordship salvation at the meeting. He bullseye gave the view we have propagated here. I don’t think all the unaffiliateds would agree with each other’s definition. BBF and GARBC guys think they’re independent. This differentiates unaffiliateds from them as well as others.

7. Jeff Voegtlin - May 2, 2008

So unaffiliated Baptists are affiliated with other unaffiliated Baptists but not with Baptists who are affiliated with other affiliated Baptists

Would a majority (51% and up) of unaffiliated Baptists generally agree with what is commonly known as Baptist Bride doctrine?

8. Kent Brandenburg - May 2, 2008

I haven’t heard a Baptist Bride message at any meetings, and I’ve been to four now total. I don’t hear it at meals in discussion either. You might be right though on 51%, but it hasn’t been a big enough pet peeve for me to have heard anything on it. First, the men come together to be with Mt. Zion Baptist. Second, it seems that was separates them doctrinally comes in this order: ecclesiology proper, bibliology, separation, and then soteriology; that is, local only, KJV, dress standards, and repentance. They are definitely non-Hyles. Very common among them is no mission boards.

I met Doug Hammet, E. L. Bynum, and Jame Quorello at this meeting for the first time.

These unaffiliateds would generally have “conservative music,” but that is much broader in definition than to which I am accustomed. They are not closed about discussing it, because it does come up.

9. Gary Johnson - May 2, 2008

Baptist Bride versus Faithful Bride just to open up a can of worms, and of course just as what was preached in the Lordship Salvation message, it all depends on what your definition of the position is. Since unaffiliated Baptists don’t have statement of faith that we all have to sign off on to be a part of something, there just might be a bit of difference on this subject.

10. reglerjoe - May 3, 2008

Having sufficiently derailed the comment thread, I would like to take the ball a little further down th field (Hammers permitting).

Gary Johnson said:
“Or answer this question, How many independent Baptists do you know who are connected to some outside organization in some manner? It may be a mission board, it may be a fellowship, it may be a college, but there are some ties that bind.”

Would sending money to mission boards or recommending a certain college be an official enough tie to make me an affiliated Baptist? I’ve been an independent Baptist all of my life, and I’ve rarely met a missionary who doesn’t use a mission board. Am I just not hangin’ around the same crowds as you guys?

11. Gary Johnson - May 3, 2008

Well it isn’t really about hangin’ around with the right crowd, but rather a matter of believing the sufficiency of the local church to accomplish the work of the Lord, apart from the man made organizations.

I Tim. 3
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Along with its sufficiency comes the matter of authority to do the Lord’s work. How many churches do you know of that were either the product of a split, or some man simply went of to an area to “start a church”? They lack any authority from the Lord to do his work. I realize this could turn into a very long study and discussion of church doctrine, but having been one who started out on the wrong side of this issue, (I was taught the universal church theory when first saved) I understand the questions some have when hearing some of these matters for the first time.

12. Kent Brandenburg - May 3, 2008

Regler Joe,

You’ve had a different crowd. Do you have a crowd now?

13. reglerjoe - May 3, 2008

Kent,

I’ll email you.

14. OLD fashioned preacher - May 15, 2008

I’m unaffilated, have been for 31 years - BBF prior to that - SBC prior to that (long road when only being in church 3 times before Salvation). The 2 missionaries out of our church are handled by our church, but, please be aware of the fact that some countries are now adopting national policies that will NOT allow a missionary into their country who is not with a missions board.

15. Don Heinz - May 16, 2008

Which ones? Got any proof of that?

16. Don Heinz - May 17, 2008

Hmmm, must have been a drive-by commentator. This is the classic excuse for board missions that I have heard for 25 yrs. I’ve only been saved 26 yrs. And, every time I ask this question, I never get an answer. One mission board head said that he would send my pastor and me the list; he never did.

17. Mike Marshall - June 11, 2008

We are both Independent and Unaffiliated. I think the term Unaffiliated came along after Independent, because some though Independent should mean Unaffiliated, and some did not. So we only affiliate with those who are not affiliated with anyone who affiliates. And those who are affiliated typically do not want to affiliate with us because we are not affiliates. Oh, the drama………

We are not members of any convention, or pre-convention (also known as a “fellowship”), we do not recommend any particular college, and we do recommend boards, nor do we support board sent missionaries. Thus, we claim the label “Unaffiliated” as well as “Independent”.

18. Art Dunham - June 11, 2008

So, if you are unaffiliated with anyone who is affiliated, are you affiliated with those who are not? I am so confused.

By the way, I have noticed that some (not the Jack Hammers) use unaffiliated as a mark of pride, almost as bad as those who affiliate with a particular school or philosophy.

Does that mean if anyone supports a missionary who has a mission board that he is not “unaffiliated?” Who determines this? Do you have to affiliate with the “unaffiliated” to know this?

Aren’t terms fun?